My old post on the Saeco Talea Giro machine teardown (including deprecated one) has had tremendous success and I frequently get questions on how to fix this or that.
I am no specialist on this stuff but I've managed to keep my unit running after it was used in an office environment (>50000 coffees). So for me it's mostly guesswork and some logic, but I'll display this so that you can help figure out the problem with your own unit. I'll try to make this accessible to non-technical people, let me know if some idioms are too advanced.
I will try to update this guide with usual questions, but this is not a replacement for professional servicing.
I also plan to do a series of videos on how coffee machines work (various types), I'll link it here when it's done.
First we need to have a common language, use this as a reference, no need to read it now:
Warm startup - heating element/boiler is still warm - does not do the priming step. You should use cold startup for diagnosing.
I am no specialist on this stuff but I've managed to keep my unit running after it was used in an office environment (>50000 coffees). So for me it's mostly guesswork and some logic, but I'll display this so that you can help figure out the problem with your own unit. I'll try to make this accessible to non-technical people, let me know if some idioms are too advanced.
I will try to update this guide with usual questions, but this is not a replacement for professional servicing.
Before troubleshooting make sure that the unit is cleaned and descaled and has enough water. Use the manual for this, each unit is different. Also, try turn the unit off and on, perhaps leaving it 1h undisturbed. This works around some of the bugs in software (firmware).
Learn the sounds of the machine and try to understand what it does in its normal state. There are several motors and they are easy to identify by sound.
Refer to my original post (from years ago) if you want to understand more about how such a unit is constructed: http://hackcorrelation.blogspot.de/2013/07/saeco-talea-automatic-coffee-machine.html
Refer to my original post (from years ago) if you want to understand more about how such a unit is constructed: http://hackcorrelation.blogspot.de/2013/07/saeco-talea-automatic-coffee-machine.html
I also plan to do a series of videos on how coffee machines work (various types), I'll link it here when it's done.
First we need to have a common language, use this as a reference, no need to read it now:
- hopper: where the coffee beans go
- water reservoir (tank): where the intake water goes
- waste bin: spent water (wastewater) and coffee grounds (spent coffee) goes there, usually separate from each other
- grinder: sits below the hopper and grinds coffee with a ceramic wheel
- brew group (assy for short): the rotating arrangement that moves ground coffee around, from the grinder, to the water/steam pipes, to the waste bin. Do not machine wash! (because of the low-temp seals)
- steam valve: on machines than can froth milk (for cappuccino) it redirects steam to a separate pipe that goes into the milk cup
- scale: hard water residues, usually calcium carbonate. It deposits and stops water flow
- dispenser: sits above your coffee cup(s) and dispenses coffee into it
- drip tray: sits underneath your coffee cup and catches spillage
- sensors - they detect stuff: mechanical sensors or limit switches, magnetic sensors for checking covers, water sensors for sensing water, speed sensors (also magnetic) for checking motor rotation, flow sensor for measuring quantities of flowing water
- covers: doors that can be opened for user-servicing the machine. It can mean the assy door (right on a Talea Giro), hopper cover (top), waste basket (also right, the lower portion), water reservoir (left)
- priming: pipes should not have air inside them, so water/steam is pushed through them to get them ready.
- water pump: steam alone is not powerful enough to push water through the unit, so an additional pump is used.
- heating element/boiler: fills up with water, has a low-resistance wire that heats up the water. It also includes a temperature sensor and an over-temperature fuse. The fuse will disconnect if water goes above a certain temperature. The boiler does not work with air.
The function of the coffee machine: water and coffee beans go in, beans are ground, water is heated to a boiling point, pumped as a steam, the ground coffee is compressed, steam is passed through the ground coffee, through the dispenser and into the coffee cup.
The used (spent) coffee is then pressed, the resulting waste water goes the water waste bin, the (now dry) spent coffee goes into the coffee waste bin.
Water circuit: reservoir -> boiler -> pump -> assy -> ground coffee -> coffee dispenser -> cup.
On cold startup the machine does several things:
- The covers are checked to see if they are closed
- The water reservoir is checked to see if it has enough water
- The assy is rotated to one limit and back to the other limit. This resets it to a 'ready' state
- The waste basket is checked to see if it's empty
- The coffee counter is checked to see if it's above a limit
- The water heater is turned on
After everything above is successful and the water reaches its boiling temperature, the unit does a 'priming' step:
- The assy rotates to the 'brew' position
- The water pump is turned on
- Water goes through its normal circuit and the flow is measured
Warm startup - heating element/boiler is still warm - does not do the priming step. You should use cold startup for diagnosing.
Errors before the priming step
Easy steps
The covers are not closed - check all doors. Remove and replace the water reservoir. See if some beans are not blocking the doors or sensors. Use a strong magnet near the sensors to "fool" the unit into sensing that the doors are closed.
Check to see if the unit does not have any water inside it, especially under the waste bin.
Check to see that the water reservoir has enough water. The unit will want to make sure at least one (large) cup of coffee water content is there.
If this happens after a cleanup: check the assy, on my unit is has an arrow on the left (inner) side that has to be pulled up in order for the unit to close properly. Use the manual for this.
Harder steps
The water does not reach a boiling point. This is signalled by the yellow LED flashing continuously. It can mean that either the temperature sensor is broken or the heating element inside the boiler is broken.
The assy cannot reach its limit switches. It means that it's maybe blocked by something or it needs a bit of oil. Take it out and try to manually move stuff. I use the lever on the bottom of the assy on my unit. The assy motor might be broken - this you can detect if the assy is not trying to move at all. Or the limit switches are corroded/broken. You can sense this by listening to the motor trying to move too much after it's normal silent period.
Errors after the priming step
So the unit has turned on and passed its initial checks. It waited for a while, heated up the water and tried to do a priming step.
The unit remains silent
If there are no errors on the screen/LEDs then likely the heating element or sensor died out. Or you shut it down while it was still in an error state and it remembered that. Since it's a costly replacement, check the steps below, it cannot hurt.
Check to see if the steam valve is on the normal position. If it's even a tiny bit off the unit will detect the switch as erroneous and will not continue.
Did you hear any loud(usual) noise from the unit?
This probably means that the boiler is working, along with its temperature sensor, the pump is working.
The unit will check the flow meter now and it determined that not enough water goes through. 90% percent of the time this means that there is scale (carbon deposits) inside the pipes. Have you descaled the unit properly? I usually run 2-3 reservoirs to get it done properly. Using a filter does not exempt you for doing a descale, I learned that the hard way.
9% of the times it means the unit cannot pull water through: either the hard water filter (inside the reservoir) is too tightly packed with granules (aftermarket filter) or there is still air inside the system.
If there is air inside the system then you need to use the steam valve and the 'water drop' button to force water through. Try to do this in steps that last <10 seconds as to not overheat the pump.
If the filter is an aftermarket one (or DIY) try to remove it and do the step above without the filter.
The remaining 1% means there could be some issues with piping.
Errors during usage - coffee is not ground
There are no errors on the display, the unit has enough water and coffee beans. You try to make a coffee, there are some noises but nothing happens - you can hear the assy moving.
The grinder motor is not moving
Have you taken the unit apart? Check to see if you haven't pinched any wires and every connector is back to its place.
The cover might be off - check to see there aren't any particles blocking the sensors. If this is the case the assy motor would also not be moving.
If the machine goes through the [assy] motions as normal but it does not grind you can assume that the grinding motor is broken or the wires/fuses are broken.
Grinder motor is moving, coffee is not grinding/moving
It might mean there is a problem with your grinding wheel - too loose, something blocking the way or the the wheels/shaft connecting the motor to the grinding wheel might be broken.
Grinder motor moving, coffee getting ground, then wasted (without water being pumped)
Does the coffee makes its way to the assy? This is where you need to learn the sounds and see if the 'compression' step happens, this is when the assy moves ground coffee to the compressed position.
If there is no 'compression' step: the grinder speed sensor might be broken, there is no coffee, the setting for the grinder is too fine (grinder overload), grinding wheel is broken, grinding wheel is somehow slipping. Assy might be broken/misplaced, limit switches for assy might be broken.
If there is a compression step: does the water pump start? I assume so, see steps below. If not, then I don't know (yet), during the priming step the water pump should start.
Water/steam is being pumped, ground coffee gets dumped without getting into the cup
This might mean there is a flow restriction. Are you sure you've descaled the unit?
It can also be triggered by the ground coffee being too fine - water/steam cannot get through at an acceptable rate. Adjust the grinding ratio (coarse/fine) and see if it cures things. This can usually be adjusted through a knob inside the hopper, see the manual for this.
Coffee might be too 'fat', make sure you use coffee beans designed for automated coffee machines.
Some pipes might be disconnected or floating or they might've burst from pressure. Can't help you.
You can hear steam and water going in, no coffee coming out
The dispenser might be clogged, with scale or coffee deposits. You can buy a small wire brush that can clean it. It's a wire with bristles on it, like a bottle cleaner, around 5mm (0.2") in diameter and 25 cm (10") long. You run this wire through the dispenser (from below) until it reaches the inside of the unit and you can see its end (with the assy taken off).
If you are in an emergency situation perhaps you can find some plastic bristle wire, from a brush or something. Do not use a bare metal wire! Nylon wire would be a good choice.
This would happen especially if the unit has been sitting unused and unmaintained for a while.
You can use a compressed air can for checking flow and unrestricting it. It's gonna be messy.
The plugs/piping going to the dispenser might be broken.
The dispenser on my unit has an 'Aroma Selector' knob. If it's turned all the way to the right try turning it all the way to the left. With aroma selector turned all the way up the coffee flow is severly restricted.
If there is water coming out of the steam (frothing) pipe instead of the dispenser it means that the valve is broken. Replace the valve or plug the hole completely if you don't use it.
If there is water beneath the unit then: is the water black? Check the above steps. Is it clear? Check the complete water flow from the reservoir.
Check the assy, it has a [stainless steel] filter that keeps the ground coffee out and lets water through. It might be clogged, dirty or filled with deposits.
Coffee too weak
Check the aroma selector knob (in front of the unit, on the dispenser).
Clean the assy with tap water, check for coffee deposits.
Check if the water isn't following the correct path - use magnets to keep the door open and see what the unit does.
Coffee too small
See steps above, there might be a water restriction or a leak.
The unit has a counter for descaling. After a certain number (200-500) the unit demands a descale. It's recommended you do this ahead of time anyway. If you're cheap you can use vinegar. If you're even cheaper, you can run the spent liquid through the unit a few times. Since it's hot, it helps even more with descaling. However, don't do this on the first cycle, use the 'second water' for this since it's a lot cleaner.
My descaling procedure - even though I use a filter anyway: every 4 months fill the tank with clean water (remove filter first!), add the recommended amount of descaling agent. If I run it sooner (every 2 months) I use household vinegar, about 10 teaspoons for 1L. I run the descale cycle once, dump the wastewater.
I then refill the tank with the same composition, run through the cycle, collect wastewater, use it in the tank (without filter!) for another 3-4 times.
Since my unit has been 'customized', the waste water is collected in the waste water bin instead of going through the steam pipe. But in your case it will likely go through that and you can collect it in a cup.
Procedure: I press the 'water drop' button on the unit that pumps water out instead of steam. I then rotate the steam selector knob to the 'frothing' position. You need to note that this does not clean the dispenser unit, you'd have to do that separately (with a small brush, see above).
I run this step for ~15 seconds and then rotate the steam knob to the normal position. I check the waste water: if it has black particles I throw it away, if it's clean I dump it back into the tank.
The 15 seconds are there to make sure that the wastewater tank does not overflow.
I run the steps above for a few times (3-4-5) and then empty the tank completely, refill with fresh water (no filter). Run the cycle once (15 seconds), replace the water filter, run through the whole tank. This ensures that your tank will not get soiled with descaling agents or vinegar.
Check the tank seals. After a certain age, the tank must be 'slammed' into place rather than gently pushed in. I've reinforced the ones on my unit by using some extra o-rings, 'fresh foil' and a pen spring.
Again, this is mostly age-related. See if you can identify where the leaks come from. In my case, a piece that connects the dispenser to the assy is broken. It can be alleviated by turning the aroma selector down a notch.
For both of the above problems: you can either live with them, buy spare parts or get the unit serviced. It's not planned obsolescence but parts do eventually wear out.
I press the coffee button, nothing happens (descaling)
The unit has a counter for descaling. After a certain number (200-500) the unit demands a descale. It's recommended you do this ahead of time anyway. If you're cheap you can use vinegar. If you're even cheaper, you can run the spent liquid through the unit a few times. Since it's hot, it helps even more with descaling. However, don't do this on the first cycle, use the 'second water' for this since it's a lot cleaner.
My descaling procedure - even though I use a filter anyway: every 4 months fill the tank with clean water (remove filter first!), add the recommended amount of descaling agent. If I run it sooner (every 2 months) I use household vinegar, about 10 teaspoons for 1L. I run the descale cycle once, dump the wastewater.
I then refill the tank with the same composition, run through the cycle, collect wastewater, use it in the tank (without filter!) for another 3-4 times.
Since my unit has been 'customized', the waste water is collected in the waste water bin instead of going through the steam pipe. But in your case it will likely go through that and you can collect it in a cup.
Procedure: I press the 'water drop' button on the unit that pumps water out instead of steam. I then rotate the steam selector knob to the 'frothing' position. You need to note that this does not clean the dispenser unit, you'd have to do that separately (with a small brush, see above).
I run this step for ~15 seconds and then rotate the steam knob to the normal position. I check the waste water: if it has black particles I throw it away, if it's clean I dump it back into the tank.
The 15 seconds are there to make sure that the wastewater tank does not overflow.
I run the steps above for a few times (3-4-5) and then empty the tank completely, refill with fresh water (no filter). Run the cycle once (15 seconds), replace the water filter, run through the whole tank. This ensures that your tank will not get soiled with descaling agents or vinegar.
There's (clear) water underneath my unit
Check the tank seals. After a certain age, the tank must be 'slammed' into place rather than gently pushed in. I've reinforced the ones on my unit by using some extra o-rings, 'fresh foil' and a pen spring.
There's (dirty) water underneath my unit
Again, this is mostly age-related. See if you can identify where the leaks come from. In my case, a piece that connects the dispenser to the assy is broken. It can be alleviated by turning the aroma selector down a notch.
For both of the above problems: you can either live with them, buy spare parts or get the unit serviced. It's not planned obsolescence but parts do eventually wear out.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteGreat post. Thanks for that. I have an odea giro which is similar to talea and my problem is that my pump doesn't work. On the initial cycle, it doesn't prime and when I get the right temperature and I want to get hot water or steam, it does'n work. Same when I make a coffe: grinder send the ground coffe to ground bin without water. But I tested the pump itself and it works. I also dissasemble and rinsed the flow meter but the problem is still there. Can this problem be related to board (control of the pump) or one of the sensor ? What do you think ? Thanks
Does the pump make any noise? If it doesn't, I suspect some board is at fault, but check first that there isn't voltage going to the pump by following the wires back to the board. Perhaps the wires are pinched or unplugged.
DeleteOn the board you can look for obvious signs of defects, like black marks, smell and chipped power transistors (i.e. small holes).
I doubt the flow meter is at fault, that comes into play after the pump is running.
check the thermall protector on the pump it has to be connected not open circuit
DeleteHi. I hope you could help me figure out why when I make the first coffee it comes out fine, but on the second one most of the times makes a splash of high pressure water before the coffee comes out. And then the coffee is fine, the splash is what is annoying...
ReplyDeleteWhich kind of machine? Did it always do that?
DeleteThe splashing happens because the water lines are not primed and/or the high pressure is not released from some point. Perhaps you can manually release it by playing with the steam dispenser control.
Saeco odea Go. I think it is primed because it makes the noise, my guess is some valve, or blockage... but this only happens sometimes and only on the second cofee taken.
DeleteWas it like this when new? Or you bought is second-hand or it started acting recently?
DeleteSince my machine has the steam valve bypassed (manually) I use the steam selector to descale it and relieve the pressure. That is, before the second coffee, you could move the steam selector to another position, leave it there a few seconds, then move it back.
If that's an issue from the factory, you could try and move the cup tray up, so the splash does not go outside the cup.
Either way, a descaling procedure is always welcome. You could extend that by moving the steam selector valve while descaling, either with special solution or vinegar.
I got this second hand and not working very well. I got it working by cleaning everything. It did this splash ever since. Recently I was having some drops coming from steam wand, found that steam valve needs new rubber gaskets. I already ordered, waiting for them to arrive. Then I will try that. I do descaling regularly. Thanks.
DeleteI replaced some orings (steam valve, boiler pin) and apparently it fixed the problem. I also cleaned the boiled pin.
DeleteHi Ligius, please check out the problem with the Saeco Odea Giro coffee maker. Thank you for your advice.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJuBPC35hEs&feature=youtu.be
Sorry, video is down.
DeleteIn test mode, my Odea Giro pump sounds like it is working, and my brew unit too. But no liquid is drawn into or comes out of system. I opened it up and the tubes going to the pump (form the resevoir) are clear. I did notice that when I test the pump, it does not give a flicker to the board light as it should. What does that mean? Suggestions? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteThere is a valve, I think at the bottom of the water tank. You can test if it's clean and functioning. I think it should let water out only when that valve is pushed by a pin inside the machine (water tank in correct position).
DeleteA too fine (aftermarket) water filter can also block water flow, at least until everything is primed. So try without a filter, if you have one.
Last point, in my case I prime the system using the descaling cycle and playing with the steam selector. But that's because on my machine a lot of the parts are not original anymore and it's very worn out.
This is a really late reply but if you still own the machine and did not get it fixed, remove any water filter and make sure the valve of the water reservoir actually work (push it in using a pen, water should flow out) and make sure your machine doesn't have a little plastic part broken where you insert the reservoir (the plastic pin that push on the reservoir could break).
DeleteIf that doesn't work either, check part "996530007887" (the water turbine, it count the water going tru the machine, I occasionally saw machine that had little bit of coffee clogging up this part)
The pump could also sound okay yet still be a goner, you can test it by unplugging the water output and giving it 120vAC(unplug it from the machine first, of course)
Hi my saeco odea in the last few days, when started heating phase, it wont stop heater at the correct temperature, it goes on and on until I sense the high temperature and release the steam with the steam valve, or the safety valve releases it. today it even caused trouble in the brew group, cause some piece of plastic got broken...
ReplyDeleteIs there a way to fix this? is it the temp sensor or circuit board problem? where to start looking?
thanks
Sorry for the late reply.
DeleteI would check the thermostat (resistor) first, perhaps it has a marking on it, it might be a 20k NTC resistor. NTC means at room temperature it reads high (~20k Ohms), after heating it decreases. If it reads open or short then it's likely broken. It normally sits inside the boiler, check to see if it's serviceable.
Hello Ligius,
ReplyDeleteis there a way to contact you privately? (Don't worry, I don't want to bug you with question, I want to help you!)
Hi, use my name @gmail.com
DeleteHi, So my machine will start to pump the coffee and then after it pumps for about 3 seconds the motor or pumps gets very quiet and no water comes out. I have tried cleaning the brew group and now I get no water coming out. Everything works fine in test mode pump, grinder, heater, etc.
ReplyDeleteI will take it apartr today I guess and see if something is plugged.
Have you tried setting the top valve knob to a different position to see if steam/water comes out? The frothing function should use the same path up until the brew unit, so if that works, then the problem is from that valve until the brew unit/coffee cup.
DeleteProblem was the Brew unit the metal disc was plugged, noticed after I took the whole machine apart. Working again I have had this unit for about 6 or 7 years keeps on ticking. Thanks for your help
ReplyDeleteStopped working do I need to replace the pump? Here's a video
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTusOeqVJ0c
Pump is fine since it produces steam. The blockage is somewhere between the steam valve and the coffee dispenser. Since the coffee dispenser would blow up from such a pressure, my money is on the brew unit. It has a valve on top.
DeleteYou can either try to replace that valve or try pressing on the top pin and blow (hard) into the side port. Or leave some vinegar to dissolve into the side port with the pin pressed, it might soften the scale.
DeleteSo that's the problem. I soaked itand out it back together and it's still plugging. If I remove the spring and ball it works. So maybe I just need a new one. I also took apart the top of the Brew unit and cleaned that sleave out. Valve assembly Saeco Odea https://imgur.com/gallery/zVm0t
ReplyDeleteSo I have cleaned it all out but it still stops part way through the Brew, if I remove the ball it works fine, I don't think the pump is applying enough pressure to hold the valve open?
ReplyDeleteThank you for all the help. I have repaired my unit several times but I am now at a loss. I have the problem you state above where you don’t have an answer “yet” and was hoping you now have an answer.
ReplyDeleteMy Odea Giro starting grinding too long and I think overfilling the assy causing dry grounds to be dumped when it tries to compress the ground beans and then fails it reverses and dumps the grounds (you can hear it struggle to compress all the way). I have tried adjusting the grind size, bean type, and cleaned and lubed the unit. It may work once or twice after cleaning or a reset but then may fail several times in a row.
Should I replace the grinder speed sensor? Or is this a control board issue? Or am I imagining it is grinding longer and really the issue is with the limit switch. I have not opened up the side to look at limit switches yet. One other thing when it does work the pucks are noticeably larger than they used to be.
Thanks
Dave
After regular cleaning (previously it was in an office environment with not much maintenance) that issue doesn't happen anymore.
DeleteDoes the error flashes say something? It might mean that water is still present below the dreg tank, but I doubt that's the issue.
The speed sensor looks like the culprit in this case, but I'm not a professional. Especially if the pucks are larger than normal. I think it might be missing pulses.
I would rule out other issues (such as PCB) and limit my search to the entire grinding assembly.
Hi. I have Saeco Odea Giro machine. It started to flash coffee grounds drawer light and descaling light alternately as soon as machine is powered. The brewing group and brewing motor don't initiate prestart cycle. It makes just one click and lights starting flashing. Could you advise what is possible problem with this machine and can it be fixed home? Thanks
ReplyDeleteThat usually happens when the water/steam path is blocked, usually because of scale deposits. It might also happen if that path is not primed, i.e. it's dry, especially if the machine has been sitting for a while.
DeleteAmazing work. This is the most detailed post I found and is very helpful. I have a question...
ReplyDeleteI own Saeco Odea Giro. Having problems with the brew group motor.
After taking apart and using the test mode, I believe that the motor is faulty. It works but it's like it doesn't have enough power to move the parts as it should. Does that make sense?
When I let the motor run with no load, it works, but when it is properly connected through the gears to the brew group, it gets stuck mid way.
Should I replace the motor?
Which is the right one? And where would you buy?
Or any other idea?
Hello
ReplyDeleteI got a Talea Giro when the machine started and the water pump stopped working ... What could be the problem?
First to say that you have a great forum here very detailed and very helpful.
ReplyDeleteI'm owner of TaleaGiroPlus. This morning as it was working properly the machine just stopped. The Cofee group is in open position so I cannot open the one side,no light is on. When I press the power button some time I here a sound like something want to start but nothing is happening.
Thank you
Sounds like tbe brew group is not working properly. Could be the microswitches, the motor or perhaps it was just washed and not reset to the "zero" position or not sitting properly inside. But if this happens, usually the lights start blinking. Other than that, I would check the power supply.
DeleteHi, I have the Talea Giro and have something wrong with grinding phase of brewing. The unit will start grinding and continue for a normal amount of (5-10 seconds?) and then the exclamation symbol lights red, then goes through the motion of cycling the brew unit. I can clear the red indicator by removing/replacing the bean hopper lid. Try again, same result. I see dry grounds in the puck hopper, so it seems the beans are getting ground, but it's like the unit doesn't sense enough coffee grounds and errors out. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteThe grinder motor has a speed sensor on it. It uses this to sense how much coffee has been ground or if there are any coffee beans left or if it has become stuck. I would suspect this sensor or the connection to it.
DeleteHi Ligius, thank you for your reply. I found coffee ground residue between the connector pins on the grinder motor sensor and cleaned it off. Also found caked coffee grounds on the bottom grinding wheel near the outside of it and cleaned those channels as well. Works great now! thanks again
ReplyDeleteHi Ligius, first of all thank you for such complete and detailed post about Odea Giro, this is the best so far i've found in the internet about this coffe machine. After careful reading still I dont have a correct answer to my problem, so I have to ask.
ReplyDeleteMy problem is kinda common from the basic point of view, red exclamation mark is flashing rapidly, with the lit green water drop on the hot watter button after i power on the Giro. So with information i've found so far it gives me, some problem with water flow.
Teared the Odea apart, checked the water lines, valves, orings, pump itself, water tank, and flush meter (i'm not completely sure here). Pump itself working fine after i connected it directly to the power source (230V AC Europe) it takes water from the tank, and pumps through whole system, all valves are inspected and clean, all tubes are clean also, water can go thorugh boiler unit to the steam valve and to the bi directional valve with an electromagnetic switch. So it looks kinda cool from this point of view, should work without problem, but it wont. I've entered the service mode and inspected all parts crucial elements of this puzzle. At any test they are working fine, pump is operational and working, steam comes from the nozzle, brewing unit can go all the way up, heating element works just fine, ginderm flow meter (as far i understood the information found on some yt video should work fine because rotations of the meter are shown by the led at front panel during the pump test) and electro switch on the bidirectional valve also. From my point of view, something is blocking starting procedure at the very begining, just before unit starts the pump. So the signal doesnt go there and the water does not flow.
It is not related to the brew unit because coffe machine after powering on should go thourgh initial checks which is does, but then the error occur and break the procedure. So I simply cant run my pump in any way, from this moment, hot water button does noting (besides clearing the information about descalling), but it not gives me signal to the pump at all. I've tried to think from the other perspective, if the pump does not get the signal to start from the electronic board, what error break the process and what can cause it.
Most common here are the flow meter, broken pump, and cloged lines/valves, so this can be thrown away because it's working fine, as I mentioned earlier.
Could you point me out in the right direction with this issue here?
Also worth mentioning is that the air in the system is not present since in service mode i've pumped at least two tanks of water already.
My types here are broken electronic board or something obvious that i'm missing that laying in front of my eyes.
Are you sure the flow sensor is working? Just because the lights are spinning it doesn't mean that it's doing something, but it could be probably easily checked with a multimeter.
DeleteYou can also try disconnecting it from the board and seeing if it makes any difference.
Other than that, the machine needs to know that the flow system is working fine, after an error has occurred. So you can run/force a descaling, several times, without turning the machine off or doing anything to it. Usually, after a few seconds (2-15) it recognizes that the flow is fine. At least that's what the fast blinking would tell me, some problem with the water flow. The only way the machine can detect that is by using the flow sensor, there's no pressure sensor that I know of.
No, I'm not sure. Just disconected cable from the sensor and nothing changed in the starting procedure. Tomorrow check it with the multimeted, but already ordered a new one. Should be delivered in next 48h.
ReplyDeleteNever thought that the program could check the sensor reading before it starts the pump, if I think about that, it seems logical, because program checks the signal with the sensor with some value hard coded in it and if differes than breaks the program and gives an error indicating water flow issue that also could indicate faulty water flow sensor.
When the package will arive I'll update the status and maybe compare measurments of old and new.
I expect the flow meter to alternate between open/closed when water is running through it, if it has two wires, or a Hall-sensor arrangement if it has three. In that case, a small battery (or another multimeter) could provide the power for the sensor and another meter (or a LED) could be used to check the output. That's how I would do it.
DeleteSorry to dissapoint you, but after that i repalced flow meter with a new one, that arrived today, nothing changed. So mystery remains, tomorrow i'll start checking boards trying to find something that should not be there. Gap of some type or broken circuit/element/piece of this puzzle.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the microswitches from the brew unit? Otherwise I don't know what the fast flashing could mean. All the other errors usually result in a slow flash or a constant red light.
DeleteI've just checked them, one had bad connection due to water contact, so it was easy to fix, but it didnt solve the problem, the alarm still exists. Tomorrow one of local coffe machine service centers should contact me with some person which is well known as a contact of last hope ;-) In case that didnt work, on local 'ebay' found some guy with exact same model, which has lot of leaks, so maybe exchanging parts give me a right answer.
DeleteOn circuit board behind the operating panel there is some communication interface, altrough this machine looks rather simple, so idea that behind this interface is hidden error message or so is pretty naive.
In this case I'm guessing that the problem should be somehow related to the circuit board because all of components are working fine from the service mode. The thing that we dont know is how starting separate components in this mode differs from normal operating mode. We can assume that there should be some checks performed but those should be on really basic level, such as electroswitch open/closed circuit. And thats it. Maybe there is some stupid thing that i've missed at the very begining since this is my second time playing with coffe machines. So some things that are obvious for skilled service man are completly new to me and are far away of being obvious.
Ligius, you'll have to change the main post and add aditional step between frist group of basic tests and the second one. Coffe machine checks also the steam valve position which is gathered from the hall sensors located on the circuit board which is above the steam valve. This circuit board has 7 or 8 elements, in my case the resistor marked there as R4 was faulty, it gave false reading to the main board, should give 10KOhms and give something like 5.5. So the program treated this value as 'steam valve open' and waited till the sensor will recieve correct value after the owner turn the steam valve to the 'closed' position. So it runs fine again besides leaking steam valve which simply leaks the water through the steam tube, but this is minor fault at this moment. Many new skills had been learned and I really thank you for your cooperation and help. Without your post my repair would be a lot of harder and yours precious answers also give me a lot of help in cases that i never planned to explore or check. Once again big Thank You Ligius :)
ReplyDeleteThank you for the kind words, the needs to be updated with the goldmine of information that users like you have provided in the comments.
DeleteMy steam selector valve is also acting up since the detent is too soft and it sometimes stays in-between positions. But on my machine this shows up as a slowly blinking red light. However, I played a bit with it, and, if the selector is moved during the prime cycle, it switches to a fast blinking light and the "waterdrop" led also lights up.
It's great to have a resource for fixing this machine! Thank you all. My machine is now 10+ years old. So far I've only had to replace the grinder sensor. Everything works well except lately the dredge drawer is turning on the red light when pushed in all of the way. IF I pull the drawer slightly out, it goes green. Also, I occasionally get a fault (red light) during the compression cycle. I thought that it was over/under-grinding and then dumping the ground coffee because it starts to compress but then dumps the coffee. But with the dredge drawer slightly out, it works just fine. All of this leads me to suspect that the trip mechanism for the dredge drawer has worn, but I can't see anything. I think that it is magnetic but the Odea Giro parts diagram does not show anything. Any thoughts? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteOn my machine the dredge drawer has a magnet which allows the machine to detect it. When washed a lot, this gets rusty, I cleaned the rusty remains and epoxied a new magnet in place.
DeleteThe other reason for red light there can be triggered by the waste water sensor.
Lingus,
ReplyDeleteFirst, thank for the time in effort you have put into this fantastic resource. It's brilliant.
I was hoping you may be able to provide some insight into a new issue I'm having.
I've had my brew unit (TaleaGiroPlus) jam. This has happened before years ago and I followed the same trouble shooting steps:
I removed brew unit (Unscrewed the piece where water is injected.)
Reassembled and rest the brew unit
Reinstalled dreg drawer and used a screwdriver to press the micro switch (sensor for brew unit present) and used a magnet to get the unit to reset the gears to the neutral position.
This time the main gear just keeps spinning forward. It not not reset back to the neutral position.
If I reinstall the brew unit and it jams the unit brew unit again.
Any thoughts?
Hi, sorry for the late answer.
DeleteI am at a loss to what's happening, but sounds like some pieces are broken from the brew unit or missing teeth on the plastic gear or the microswitches are bent/damaged/out of position. Either way, I would guess the problem is somewhere around that area. On my unit, it's quite easy to take the plastic cover off and inspect the switches.
Hi Ligius,
ReplyDeleteI know it's been years since you made this post, but I'll try my hand at asking for advice anyway.
I have an old Odea Go that slowly stopped making coffee. By coincidence or causation, this started after I descaled it once. The amount of coffee slowly decreased and when I realized that something must be up, I stopped using it.
I've cleaned out the grinder and brew group (assy) thorougly, made sure the path from the dispensing nozzle to the valve was clear, and even cleaned the inside of the brewing system valve. I tried to descale it a second time and was disheartened that the results did not improve.
I'm currently descaling it a third time (since it has been a few months since I worked on it) and I would say that it's even worse than before.
Some observations:
>The pucks are perfectly shaped, although not too wet
>There is very little run-off
>There are no leaks
>The grind is not too fine
>The water tank is not blocked
>The water that I can get out of the steam wand is hot, and usually there is a lot of steam
>It does not prime properly and I need to use the steam wand
>Coffee takes ages to brew, if it does, and comes out as a trickle
>The first shot I attempted to make yesterday would not come out, and instead steam exited from the dispensing nozzle and the brew group
>The pump makes noise
>When I force water through the system (using a large syringe), coffee is made faster
My thoughts are that if this final descale does not work, I need to replace the pump. I don't have electrical tools to test anything, but I hope I can replace the pump alright.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
I would also think that the pump is getting weaker, there's no easy and safe way to test it.
DeleteYou could also try making the grind coarser, there is an adjustment in the beans holder. If the coffee is too oily or fine it may cause stoppage.
Also look at the mesh inside the brew group, see if it's clogged. Above it there is also a small needle-like valve that pushes into the brew group.
If you could pump water with a syringe better than the pump, I would say that's not a good sign. If you didn't make it exactly from after the pump, you could try this: start a coffee cycle and unplug the machine as soon as it starts pumping. Disconnect the hose from the pump outlet and try again with the syringe. If you can push water through, I would guess the pump is shot (perhaps the paddles have broken).
The other thing that comes to mind is that perhaps there's a large piece of dislodged limestone. I would just run several cycles with some strong vinegar (25%) diluted with 3 parts water and run the same solution a few times through the machine. Maybe 'route' the machine so that it pumps the solution through the coffee path.
With nothing to lose, you could try making a few large coffees with vinegar and the cheapest coffee you can get.
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DeleteHi Ligius,
DeleteFirst, let me just say that your quick response did a big number to boost my optimism! You're awesome!
My coffee maker is working now. The problem was indeed the pump, but not in the way that you described. The Saeco Odea Go uses an ULKA Vibration Pump (https://youtu.be/we9IZJ5tQFs). I opened mine to take a look inside and for some reason, the ball at the end of the spring in the high pressure area was too small to be held in place by the spring, and had fallen through. This meant that the pump could no longer form a sufficient seal to push water through the one-way valve.
Whether this could be due to age or heat or descalant, I don't know. My pump certainly was old and well used, so I replaced it.
Also, you can't just buy pump parts (you can on ebay but it's the same price as a new pump so....)
The replacement was actually super easy, so anyone here thinking they need to replace their pump, have hope!
Thanks again for the response, you king!
Thank you for the nice words and enjoy your repaired machine!
DeleteMine will actually get back in business after 2 years of staying broken, since I found a cheaper source for the broken steam faucet.
So glad I found this. The issue i'm having with my Saeco Xsmall is that after grinding and tamping, the red light "!" comes on steady and dumps the puck into the bin and a tiny dribble of coffee comes out. From my countless research it seems to be a "no bean" fault. I'd say this happens 90% of the time. Sometimes if I fiddle with the beans as they are dropping into the grinder, it works. But it seems to be hit of miss. I've opened and cleaned out the grinder assembly already.
ReplyDeleteWould you recommend I start with replacing the grinder sensor? Any other recommendations? Thanks!
Hi, I doubt the grinder sensor is at fault here. In that case, the coffee would not be even compressed, I believe, or no liquid coffee would come out (though that might be just purging, I doubt it). Are you sure the light comes on before any water starts running through the machine? In that case, you could look at the grinder sensors. You could also disconnect them and see if the behavior is the same. If the unit detects that the grinder spins too fast, it will think that no coffee is there. Not sure how it would react if it detects no spin at all (defective sensors), it would think that the grinder is blocked.
DeleteHey thanks for the reply. Yes, the light comes on right after the grinder stops and then the brew unit goes through the tamping process and then dumps the puck into the bin and some coffee coloured liquid comes out maybe 3-5ml.
DeleteI replaced the sensor and the light stayed off for about the first 15 cycles, then it came back on although now only maybe 40-50% of the time. It could be a coincidence that the light didn't come on for a while after changing the sensor since I cleaned out the grinder and the chute.
Is there a particular reason why the grinder is getting blocked so easily? I'm not using oily beans. Unless that metal flap between the grinder and the chute is preventing grounds to pass through easily?
I guess with all that said, what would you suggest my next steps are?
Thanks a million for your help.
Not familiar with that type of machine, but does it have a coffee quantity sensor? Is that what you are replacing? If it only has the grinder sensor, then the reason for failing is because the grinder is spinning either too fast or too slow, and this can be changed by setting the grind size.
DeleteSorry for the late reply. No, my machine doesn't have a coffee quantity sensor (I'm fairly certain anyway) just the grinder sensor which I suppose measures the motor rotation.
DeleteI'll play around with the grinder size. I think I'm at a "medium" setting at this point. I guess too coarse a setting and the grinder spins too fast and too fine a setting and it spins too slow?
What would you recommend for an ideal setting?
I think you should try the two extremes first and see if that gets you anywhere. If it doesn't do anything, I'm afraid the hall sensors attached to the motor might be broken - or the connections to them, but I doubt it. No idea if those are replaceable as a single item or if the entire motor needs to be replaced, might want to look up in the comments, I think somebody already did this.
DeleteGreat post. I am have trouble with a Talea Giro plus. Machine starts up normally and goes through it. Warm up cleaning cycle. I hit the grinder button, and the machine completely dies. Then after a few minutes, it restarts and goes through a cleaning cycle again. Sometimes I can make a cup of coffee after this process other times I can’t. I’m thinking it’s a short to the main power board?
ReplyDeleteMore likely an electrolytic capacitor on the power supply board or some flaky connections or cold solder joints.
Delete